Ranger AA Chat for The Darkened Sea

[Rorce]

[18:33] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Rangers are on the clock!'
[18:33] <shiftee> shaping the game with an idea of what your customer base actually wants helps a lot, some who will not be named just give the players whatever and usually results in unused nonsense clutting spellbooks
[18:33] <Shang_Laptop> RANGER TIME
[18:33] <Tadenea> Bunny Leap or what ever leap coming that Traveler achievement post to hasten?
[18:34] <Warbane> The most important question on the ranger agenda
[18:34] <Warbane> New headshot ranks!
[18:35] <Tadenea> read the document its already there
[18:35] <Roth_Trailfinder> there are new ranks according to that document
[18:35] <Shang_Laptop> What tadenea is referring to, was Dzarn had stated rangers were going to receive a Leap ability in the last AA installment.
[18:35] <Ronthorn> i could care less about Headshot rofl thats lowest on my list
[18:35] <ToughGuy> Can we get a PvP ability that works on blue servers but only when someone makes a Ranger joke?
[18:35] <@Elidroth> Last I checked, Dzarn doesn't make that call
[18:35] <Arthion> Eli, can we please please please get an aa similar to a cleric quiet miracle for mana? I go thru mana like a fat kid eats ice cream
[18:35] <Roth_Trailfinder> I've got a couple questions .. Healing Gift, why none? Lightning Strikes, why none? and why an increase in Scout's MAstery of the Elements, without an increase to Scout's Mastery of Fire and Scout's Mastery of Ice (for those of us who use them for Magic, which elements does not increase)?
[18:35] <mib_ndgzhd> re: elemental arrow. the fire portion is unresistable, the cold has not resist mod at all. is this a bug?
[18:36] <Shang_Laptop> Correct, however he had stated you guys were aligned on that.
[18:36] <@Elidroth> First I've heard of it
[18:36] <Hatsee> He said he would ask and then said it was agreeable or something like that.
[18:37] <Shang_Laptop> Ah, well.. As a background, for the travelers achievements, each class was granted run speed. The classes that have max runspeed were granted hastened AA ranks to their leap abilities.
[18:37] <@Elidroth> Healing Gift is coming
[18:37] <Ratbo> Please let Tadenea go 1st - She is class rep and has to get to a meeting. :)
[18:37] <Tadenea> how about more ranks of Flaming Arrows and Frost Arrows to bring the damage more up in line to Poison arrows and update stun on Frost
[18:37] <Shang_Laptop> Rangers are max run speed, and do not have a leap ability, so that was what Dzarn had mentioned would be our award.
[18:37] <Tadenea> I dont care here anyone can make a request
[18:37] <@Elidroth> Scout's Mastery of Fire/Ice might be added.. I'll look at it
[18:38] <Tadenea> what shang said
[18:38] <@Elidroth> I'll take a look and talk with Dzarn when he's in
[18:38] <Shang_Laptop> My apologies, I had figured he would have communicated that to you. But, as-is, Rangers "Journeyman XXX" AA says, 'To hasten a future leap ability"
[18:38] <Ronthorn> Elidroth last one of these chats we asked for a hundred hands type proc added to scouts mastery of slash/pierce/blunt or close combat mastery you said at the time hundred hands was broken... i think its fixed now and if it is any way rangers could get this type of proc added to one of the ones i listed?
[18:38] <mib_ndgzhd> Can we get AA slow equal to what epic has? Not a huge deal, but several other classes have AAs for epic 1.0 effects now
[18:39] <Ratbo> OK then speaking of master of fire / ice - they are on the same timer (correctly) - were you to eliminate then and cut the cooldown of Scouts Master of the Elements by 50% - it would do the same thing - and eliminate TWO buttons - what think?
[18:40] <Shang_Laptop> no.. please don't do that.
[18:40] <Ratbo> Because????
[18:40] <Greyvvolf> Rat, Elements doesn't have a magic component right now, we'd be losing, there
[18:40] <Warbane> its chaos, I love it
[18:40] <Arthion> what grey said
[18:40] <Roth_Trailfinder> No. a great solution would be to simply add Magic in to the Scout's MAstery of Elements, but previously that idea had been turned down
[18:40] <Shang_Laptop> We need our Scout's Fire/Ice
[18:40] <Ratbo> Good point sorrry- what if magic component was added to Elements - then lose 2 button??
[18:40] <@Elidroth> They are better as separate for a reason
[18:41] <Greyvvolf> ^ Roth
[18:41] <Ratbo> OK
[18:41] <Shang_Laptop> He said no to that already.. Let's move on
[18:41] <Roth_Trailfinder> We're getting Veteran's Wrath .. what about Ranged Finesse?
[18:42] <Arthion> Eli, can we please please please get an aa similar to a cleric quiet miracle for mana? I go thru mana like a fat kid eats ice cream
[18:42] <@Elidroth> No
[18:42] <@Elidroth> those types of abilities aren't going to be repeated in general
[18:42] <Arthion> so absolutely nothing that will help with mana pres?
[18:42] <Shang_Laptop> As Ronthorn mentioned, we don't have any form of Hundred Hands... We've been previously denied in this request, but curious if you've had a change of heart... Even Paladins have a hundred hands ability.
[18:42] <@Elidroth> Now that hundred hands has been fixed, we can look at it
[18:43] <Tadenea> any comment about more flaming and frost arrows ranks?
[18:43] <Garrion> Forgive me for askin, what is hundred hands?
[18:43] <Shang_Laptop> Awesome. Any sort of hundred hands would be appreciated
[18:43] <Ronthorn> that would be great elidroth
[18:43] <sebshaik> @garrion it's like over-over-haste
[18:43] <Shang_Laptop> (Except negative, like our BP has.. /rude chandrok)
[18:44] <@Elidroth> Ranged Finesse is already at a 97% crit damage mod.. I supposed I could add 1 rank, but I don't really want to do any more than that
[18:45] <Shang_Laptop> SPA 330, Crit Damage Mods - We're lacking in this form of DPS addition in our DPS as well. The berserker aura, for instance, is a stronger effect than what Rangers can do themselves. Any possibility of this getting added to one of our abilities, or a new one with it?
[18:45] <@Elidroth> I'll consider more flaming/frost arrows
[18:46] <Ratbo> OK - my next one - Anyway to add an AA to *extend* Pureshot Disc to near the same length as Bosqueaker Disc? As it sits now a Ranger who uses Archery Burn - is a "Slacker". :)
[18:46] <@Elidroth> Ranged Finesse uses SPA 330
[18:46] <@Elidroth> No
[18:47] <Ratbo> OK
[18:47] <Roth_Trailfinder> I'm sure you've gotten sick of hearing about this each expansion, but what happened to the Ranger's innate ATK bonus? I don't think we were ever told why hunter's Attack Power was stopped.We're VoA/RoF/CoF going on to four expansions behind on it now
[18:47] <Shang_Laptop> For archery, yes. We can't activate it, however
[18:47] <Ratbo> Thought it might be intended for risk vs reward factor. Just checking
[18:47] <mib_ndgzhd> Ferocious Kick - 11% chance to proc 20% melee boost. However, the shaman buff Mammoth's Force increased it by 10%. Meaning this only boost damage by 10% on a rare proc. Is there any chance we could get it changed to some other damage boosting SPA?
[18:47] <Thundersnake> Passive AA Proc that adds a Passive low % chance to proc a 10-15% overslow?
[18:47] <Thundersnake> that works for both ranged and melee
[18:48] <Thundersnake> say 30 second duration
[18:48] <Roth_Trailfinder> rather not have an innate slow proc AA. I'll break out Earthcaller for slows
[18:48] <Thundersnake> its not a normal slow
[18:48] <Thundersnake> its an overslow
[18:48] <Arthion> An AA slow would be nice to have
[18:49] <@Elidroth> Hmm.. Not sure why Hunter's Attack Power was stopped either. I'll add them
[18:49] <Shang_Laptop> That's a no to an activateable Crit Damage Mod effect with SPA 330?
[18:49] <Ronthorn> great elidroth
[18:49] <Ratbo> Yes - Way cool
[18:49] <Thundersnake> maybe the AA could be an activatable long duration buff that would add the proc?
[18:50] <Thundersnake> for those who don't want to use the slow
[18:50] <Tadenea> possible Quiver haste AA so we dont have to carry quiver all the time?
[18:50] <Garrion> I have been around since 03, and stopped being active around 07. There is a lot I don't know about the game, but have always mained a ranger. Is there a reason that when it comes to various forms of dps, or abilities, we end up getting held back?
[18:51] <Ratbo> What AA is that??
[18:51] <Ronthorn> how about hasten weaponshield discpline and protection of the spirit wolf (AA)
[18:51] <@Elidroth> No to activatable SPA 330 ability
[18:52] <Ratbo> 2nd Ronthorn's ....
[18:52] <Ratbo> We will Tad!
[18:53] <Greyvvolf> Weaponshield is currently at 23m 30s recast with maxxed Hastened, honestly... Protection of the Spirit Wolf @ 20m
[18:53] <mib_ndgzhd> Can we get hastened or extended "Empowered Blades"? Most other activated damage boosters have both.
[18:53] <@Elidroth> If you continue to spam requests.. something is going to get missed.. 1 at a time please
[18:53] <Shang_Laptop> Next up - SPA 185. All of our abilities using it have been pretty far stagnated, to the point of being 50-30% of the duplicate beastlord counterparts. For example, Guardian of the Forest has been stagnated such that Outrider's Accuracy has surpassed it as a melee application (185 is the skills damage modifier)
[18:54] <Greyvvolf> Thus is why I'm waiting for a bit :P
[18:54] <Ratbo> After 10 years extending WS a bit would not either - 30 seconds is more time to come up with "Plan B".... (only adding 1 tick)
[18:55] <@Elidroth> Ferocious Kick.. I'll add new ranks that boost the proc chance only
[18:56] <Ratbo> <-------------- jumping in with Ronthorn and Greywolf.. re. Protection of the Spirit Wolf and Weaponshield - (no dead ranger jokes)
[18:57] <@Elidroth> I'll discuss it with Aristo
[18:57] <Ratbo> TYVM :)
[18:58] <Greyvvolf> Actually I was just pointing out the current reuse time, not bothered either way what's decided as whether to hasten them or not :P
[18:59] <raisin> Can the amount of hp protection of the spirit wolf absorbs be greatly increased to be more a tanking type ability?
[18:59] <@Elidroth> I'll also look at Guardian of the Forest
[18:59] <Ronthorn> thanks elidroth
[19:00] <Shang_Laptop> Awesome. It used to dwarf outrider's accuracy in power, but for some reason Guardian has been receiving small upgrades, and Accuracy is greatly passing it now
[19:00] <Ratbo> My next one - Utility - Pulling - More ranks to shorten Harmonious Arrow and Cover Tracks - (thinking of Group Rangers here - they often pull for a living)
[19:00] <Shang_Laptop> If you're really generous, you can raise both.. :-)
[19:00] <@Elidroth> we'll look at Protection of the Spirit wolf as well.
[19:00] <Ratbo> LOL - Agreed - and thanks for looking!
[19:01] <@Elidroth> I'm inclined to reduce the per hit absorption, but increase the cap
[19:01] <Shang_Laptop> I'm okay with that.
[19:01] <Garrion> Increase the cap
[19:01] <Garrion> ?
[19:01] <@Elidroth> not a yes, but not a no
[19:02] <Ratbo> Just FYI - Outriders Evasion and PotSpirit Wolf are often used together to "buy time" - would be nice if they cooled down together (or closer even)
[19:02] <Roth_Trailfinder> he means, reduce the amount absorbed (go from 40 to 30 percent, or whatever) but increase the total amount that it can absorb ... so it reduces each hit less, but reduces a larger number of hits
[19:02] <mib_ndgzhd> Cover Tracks is okay now, but only because that SPA is bugged and always works. So another level would be good for when it eventually gets fixed.
[19:02] <Ronthorn> i can not tell that outriders evasion does anything anymore rat, it may have to do with mobs strikethrough
[19:02] <Garrion> It sounds liek a good balance, but would it hurt or help us?
[19:03] <Roth_Trailfinder> help, I'd think - more damage reduced overall, even if it is less reduction per hit
[19:03] <Ratbo> Noted Ronthorn - it might be antiquated... ;(
[19:03] <Ronthorn> yeah it would help
[19:03] <@Elidroth> we'll see
[19:04] <Shang_Laptop> Minimum Hit Damage (SPA 186) Outrider's Accuracy is our only activateable ability with this. I believe it's in the area of 35%. But again, the Beastlord counterpart is over 600%. Could that stagnation be looked into as well?
[19:04] <Greyvvolf> My only beef with Cover Tracks isn't the Hastened line, it's the Quickened line of AA's... having to completely come to a stop to fade, while pulling, can sometimes be fatal.
[19:04] <@Elidroth> Shang you can't compare those two numbers by themselves
[19:05] <@Elidroth> If that was the ONLY thing contributing to your damage, then yes, you could, but it's not
[19:05] <Warbane> Elidroth - Ranger - Heavy Arrow - It's only proc'ing on the 'free target' archery skills (the AoE ones, or Squall etc) and not the Focused or Archery debuff lines, is this intentional? If it's not could this be fixed?
[19:05] <Roth_Trailfinder> minimum hit .. wasn't that part of a worn focus and increased dramatically back during Serpent's Spine expansion on that focus, because it actually had so little an effect due to people hitting for minimum so rarely?
[19:05] <Ratbo> Grey - A quick "snap turn" will let you fire Cover Tracks *fast* - but it's tricky for some peeps to pull off.
[19:05] <Shang_Laptop> Is that a no to increasing it?
[19:05] <@Elidroth> I wasn't even on the team during TSS
[19:06] <@Elidroth> no clue why they did things they did
[19:06] <Ronthorn> yeah use to be just rangers that hit for min rarely now its most classes
[19:06] <Ronthorn> just like once we were the highest attack class and highest accuracy class but no more
[19:07] <Roth_Trailfinder> Elidroth, a minimum hit mod only comes into account when you actually hit for less than that modded amount. for example, if you have a 30% min damage mod, and a minimum damage of 10, the only time that mod cwould come into play is when you actually hit for less than 13
[19:07] <Roth_Trailfinder> that's before damage bonuses, of course
[19:07] <@Elidroth> I'm aware of what a min-damage mod does
[19:07] <Ratbo> Speaking of Heavy Arrow - might wanna check the proc rate in general. Anecdotally it's proccing about once per 1/2 hour of auto-fire, and adding no *measurable* DPS - at all. It's either buggy - or needs more ranks to add any measurable DPS.
[19:08] <Greyvvolf> @ Rat if HA fails (as it tends to do often), and I have 4 or 5 mobs that hit for 15K+ coming in on my tail, a snap turn is the last thing I want to do :P
[19:08] <Shang_Laptop> once per half hour is just false... it's more frequent than that.
[19:08] <Roth_Trailfinder> Ok, just wanted to be sure of it. I don't know how often people are hitting for minimum damage, but most of people's hits are at the upper end, not the lower end
[19:08] <Ratbo> OK I was going by anecdotal report sform a few raid buddies scouuring parses.
[19:09] <Ratbo> "looking is cheap" though.... was just asking fo ra check on it...
[19:09] <@Elidroth> To get accurate assessment of proc rates.. you need to test for DAYS, not minutes so you can minimize RNG deviation
[19:10] <Klaian> about every 2 min, maybe little faster
[19:10] <Shang_Laptop> Next activateable thing Rangers don't have - Chance to crippling blow (spa 171).. Willing to add a *very* short duration aa for this?
[19:10] <@Elidroth> Yeah.. I don't mind that.. just need to figure out how much and how
[19:10] <@Elidroth> I'll add it to my notes
[19:11] <Ratbo> OK - was just asking for a *look* - based on "normal raid parses" - which is all the average player sees.
[19:12] <Shang_Laptop> Awesome, thanks Elidroth.
[19:12] <Ratbo> Shang you wan that chance to crippling blow tacked on to what AA ability? (lost you there - my fault)
[19:13] <Shang_Laptop> Hunter's Fury (Kill shot AA) - Could this provide a small mana return to the ranger? It'd be next to worthless in raids, but it'd help the grouping ranger some. It currently provides Endurance

[Rorce]

[19:13] <@Elidroth> perhaps
[19:13] <Garrion> I thought crippling blow was more for Warriors and make the Knights and even the Zerk?
[19:14] <@Elidroth> I can see it for Rangers to some extent. Not the same level as Tanks, but still
[19:14] <Ralius> would be a nice addition to run with bosq
[19:14] <Shang_Laptop> Not really, Bosque is a set-damage addition. But yes, it'd be a welcome addition
[19:15] <Shang_Laptop> Also, thank you for the Hunter's Fury looking at.
[19:15] <@Elidroth> ugh.. need to run to the restroom again.. brb
[19:15] <Shang_Laptop> I'll grab some water
[19:15] <Ratbo> Id rather run it with ANYTHING than get another button - buttons over the years are killing the fun-factor for many. (myself included somtimes)
[19:15] <Shang_Laptop> You don't have to use it.
[19:16] <Ratbo> (sigh)
[19:16] <Shang_Laptop> Or, you can learn to /alt act and mash buttons together. If you'd like, I can teach you about this feature after the chat.
[19:17] <@Elidroth> back
[19:17] <Ratbo> Yes - I have a couple spam keys... just try to avoid constant button smahing when possible.
[19:17] <Roth_Trailfinder> WB
[19:17] <Shang_Laptop> Welcome back friend.
[19:17] <Greyvvolf> Welcome back
[19:17] <Ratbo> WB!
[19:17] <Ronthorn> WB
[19:17] <Shang_Laptop> Archery Mastery - Willing to add another 15-20% in?
[19:17] <Thundersnake> WB
[19:18] <Garrion> I tried a quick google. What does Crushing Blow do exactly? (no info)
[19:18] <ToughGuy> He must really love Rangers to skip washing his hands.
[19:18] <Ratbo> LOL!
[19:18] <Shang_Laptop> Garrion, PM me on the forums and I can walk you through what crippling blow does.. We don't need to burn Elidroth's time
[19:18] <@Elidroth> I'm not going to increase ANYTHING by 15-20% in a single ability
[19:18] <Shang_Laptop> Okay, 5-10%? =p
[19:19] <Shang_Laptop> The last increase was 20%, was where I pulled that from. Sorry.
[19:19] <Roth_Trailfinder> Archery Mastery is currently at 120% ... AM4 was 20%, bringing it up a relative 10%
[19:19] <Garrion> I was curious as to its ability for Rangers in general. I apologize for crowding the chat with questions.
[19:19] <ToughGuy> Is there a limit to how many AA points can be charged for an AA other than the maximum banked AAs?
[19:19] <Shang_Laptop> It's okay buddy. But really, ask me any question in game or later and I'll help you out.
[19:20] <@Elidroth> Just because something was increased a given amount in the past doesn't mean it will be again.. Archery was in a bad place when I made that last rank.. that was a 'fix' rank
[19:20] <mib_ndgzhd> Not sure if this was missed... sorry: Can we get hastened or extended "Empowered Blades"? Most other activated DPS AA have both.
[19:21] <Shang_Laptop> Archery is actually in a pretty poor place right now. I don't think any raiding ranger uses Archery, except on possibly 2 events right now.
[19:21] <Shang_Laptop> But, regardless.. Any increase to it would help.
[19:21] <Shang_Laptop> And by archery, i mean /autofire.
[19:22] <@Elidroth> No
[19:22] <Garrion> I use it frequently. Is there something I missed? Iam building nothing but Archery aas atm. I strongly believe that it should be there main form of dps.
[19:23] <Klaian> ranger should never be many archery dps
[19:23] <Ratbo> I agree with Shand re archery - raiding archers are "slackers" on most events.
[19:23] <Klaian> main
[19:23] <@Elidroth> I like both to be valid
[19:23] <Garrion> I can understand both.
[19:24] <Garrion> The problem is, they seem less valid with what is their spectialty
[19:24] <Shang_Laptop> A rank of archery mastery, and a new AA of extended Trueshot would help.
[19:24] <@Elidroth> Noted
[19:24] <Shang_Laptop> Thanks.
[19:24] <Ratbo> I tried extended trueshot.... perhaps I asked for too much duration?
[19:24] <Arthion> More mana preservation lines of AA
[19:25] <Shang_Laptop> Probably. Usually better to let him decide on durations ;-)
[19:25] <Garrion> Things have surely changed since my raiding days. Our largest raids were TSing the boss mobs. Has that become out dated?
[19:25] <Ratbo> Very Garrr
[19:25] <Shang_Laptop> Garrion, talk to me later and I'll teach you how to burn.
[19:25] <Spankage> If you plan on sticking with this +flat damage stuff, can you get with item dev to come up with ranger only weapons instead of bow and have 18/19 delay (swords)
[19:25] <Ratbo> Risk vs Reward to some degree - Melee has more risk... and more reward.
[19:26] <Ratbo> But Im with Shang that Archery is starting to "fall off the board" so to speak.
[19:27] <Shang_Laptop> So.. Ferocious Kick.. The AA generates a ferocious amount of agro, to the point where it is unusable on several fights... Could we get a "Less Ferocious Kick", which is the same thing, but with a hate override?
[19:27] <Shang_Laptop> A hate override, that is less than the current 13k, that is
[19:27] <Ralius> like the i.f secondary buff
[19:28] <Shang_Laptop> no, not like that at all.
[19:28] <Ratbo> I like it as long as DPS is unnafected.
[19:28] <@Elidroth> The only way I'd give a copy is if they shared a timer
[19:28] <Shang_Laptop> Of course.
[19:28] <Ratbo> I always follw Ferocious Kicks with Jolting Heel Kicks to back the aggro down.
[19:29] <Shang_Laptop> But, the AA is unusable in EXP groups as is, because of it being able to be used so frequently. It's the highest agro generating ability in the game at the moment, if you use it every time it's up.
[19:29] <Greyvvolf> So you're saying a different varation of the same skill, not taking the agro out of the original Ferocious Kick?
[19:29] <@Elidroth> so which is preferred.. override or copy?
[19:29] <mib_ndgzhd> Do the new SPA 209 duration reducers work on non dispelable spells? Can we have a way to reduce duration of spells that are not normall dispable by our AA dispell?
[19:29] <Ratbo> Copy
[19:29] <Shang_Laptop> Copy. Some ranger are probably like the option to have the agro
[19:29] <Ratbo> Choice beats lack of choice
[19:29] <Greyvvolf> Copy, same timer, like Jolting/Enraging Kicks... can use either as needed
[19:29] <mib_ndgzhd> I like the aggro option personally
[19:29] <Greyvvolf> I like to be able to use Fero to hold agro if needed
[19:30] <Shang_Laptop> Right, it'd be the same relationship as Jolting-Enraging.. So we get the choice
[19:30] <Ronthorn> peter pan kick ha ha
[19:30] <Winterjoy> copy, i like the agro option too
[19:30] <Ratbo> Theres time we DO like the aggro - but Shang made a good point
[19:30] <Shang_Laptop> For example, I'd reccomend 2 hotkeys for rangers. One with Jolting + Less Ferocious, one with Enraging + Ferocious
[19:31] <Shang_Laptop> And just switch to the hotkey you'd prefer.
[19:31] <Ratbo> ]"m set up kinda htat way now - a quick edit would put the copy in the jolting one.
[19:31] <Greyvvolf> Yeah, pending the situation I agree with that. Already use Jolting/Enraging on an as-need basis like you just described
[19:31] <Ratbo> Yes.. those are two NICE tools...
[19:32] <Ratbo> Enraging Kick and soothing kick?? LOL
[19:32] <Winterjoy> if we could make the enraging kicks and jolting kicks insta cast that would help alot
[19:32] <Shang_Laptop> I like Less Ferocious Kick as the name.. It's funny, considering I don't think "Ferocious" was meant as it's being used :-)
[19:33] <Ratbo> heh... Kick a MoB in the BAs and get thanked for it... :)
[19:34] <Greyvvolf> While we're on the offensive trend, what about another Rank of Weapon Affinity? We haven't had one since Underfoot
[19:35] <Ratbo> None of us will ever argue with more ranks of a DPS AA. :)
[19:36] <@Elidroth> one sec
[19:36] <Garrion> I think I need to do some research. I keep seeing things mentioned and asked in hree that make little to no sense for a Ranger heh.
[19:36] <Shang_Laptop> No problem. Will resume when you're Gtg
[19:36] <Shang_Laptop> Agreed, Garrion. Go to EQOutrider.net, make an account, and you'll get all the help you need.
[19:37] <Garrion> I keep seeing things mentionedfor tanking or melee dps. Rangers (Archers) in general should stear clear of mob hits. Something has really changed since 03 lol.
[19:37] <Greyvvolf> Very much so, Garrion
[19:37] <Garrion> I feel like I don't even know my favorite class anymore.
[19:37] <shiftee> archers :/
[19:37] <Roth_Trailfinder> You have a miswconception there, Garrion : Rangers are not merely archers
[19:38] <Ratbo> Garrion - you kinda , sorta need to be 100, Max AA, with grouping and Raiding exp to have a WIDE picture of the world today.
[19:38] <Roth_Trailfinder> Archery is but one of our tools, and not normally even the best one
[19:38] <Garrion> Their base line affinity is meant to be archery though. Melee weapons a secondary/last resort
[19:38] <Roth_Trailfinder> backwards ... archery is the secondary resort, melee is primary
[19:38] <Garrion> Heh that seems backwards
[19:38] <Shang_Laptop> Due to fear and misconceptions of archery, archery was diminished into something that is almost never used.
[19:38] <Garrion> I always use it.
[19:39] <Warbane> Have you never seen lord of the ring? Rangers clearly use giant 2h swords.
[19:39] <Greyvvolf> They still do more range damage than any other melee DPS class, don't worry, but we're far past being just merely archers now
[19:39] <Ratbo> Since they added Bosqueakers Disc - archery is a clear #2 at end-game. Yes - Id like ot see it more viable again.
[19:39] <Shang_Laptop> Then you're jipping yourself of a lot of DPS, Garrion.
[19:39] <Garrion> Sounds like it needs revamped
[19:40] <Garrion> Although I heard recdently is was wickedly nerfed with HS
[19:40] <Ratbo> We all agreed as far as it "could use a boost" - that's for sure.
[19:40] <Greyvvolf> Since before they added Bosquestalkers Disc, Archery was a #2, unless you were burning with Trueshot line :P
[19:40] <Garrion> This was before I returned to EQ
[19:40] <Ratbo> HS was a parlor trick before - now it actually adds DPS
[19:40] <Roth_Trailfinder> headshot suffered a firing rate nerf, but a boost to the levels it would work on. all in all, it made it less viable as a primary experience technique, and more viable for dps
[19:40] <Shang_Laptop> HS in its current form is much better than it was.
[19:40] <@Elidroth> Wait.. What?
[19:40] <Ratbo> Agreed Shang et all
[19:41] <Garrion> Good to know, but i hear that it failed miserably and most stopped playing Rangers
[19:41] <@Elidroth> After all the crying and screams of death of the Ranger as a class?
[19:41] <@Elidroth> lol
[19:41] <Ratbo> I never bitched at that one Dood....
[19:41] <Shang_Laptop> I was perma-banned on the forums when that was going on, or I would've been agreeing with you.
[19:41] <Garrion> It is dying as far as archery goes. Which is why I prefered it. The archery.
[19:41] <Greyvvolf> Garrion is behind the times, Elid... lol
[19:41] <Tarvas> HS sucked. Thank you for getting rid of it.
[19:41] <Ronthorn> those were screams from people that had rangers on there second account to pl there main elidroth rofl
[19:41] <Shang_Laptop> Are you ready to resume, Elidroth?
[19:42] <@Elidroth> I am.. I had wife aggro
[19:42] <Ratbo> Yes.... Rangers that HS for a living weren;t real rangers.
[19:42] <Roth_Trailfinder> HS was useful - it allowed me to evolve my Burden of Truth very easily - but it needed to be nerfed
[19:42] <Greyvvolf> LOL
[19:42] <Greyvvolf> Ok, Weapon Affinity? heh...
[19:42] <Garrion> Wife agro equals frying pan HS for 900000000 damage
[19:42] <Shang_Laptop> Know what would help with that? Some mitigation boosts. Coincidentally, rangers could use some too.
[19:43] <Spankage> you sly dog you
[19:43] <Shang_Laptop> he loves it
[19:43] <Ratbo> Yes... Ranger mitigation is my pet topic - was saving it for last... .LOL
[19:43] <Ronthorn> i agree with shang/ratbo on mitigation boost
[19:43] <Garrion> I have had a run in with white mobs hitting me for 4k. So mitigation seems off for a "off tank"?
[19:44] <Ratbo> Even if we can get some REAL rankage of Shield Block - (giving up 30 something % DPS to equip said shield)
[19:45] <Ratbo> Grouping Rangers cant get real tanks - they only come out on Raid night.
[19:45] <Garrion> That was an interesting AA I had seen. Rangers using shields now? What happened while I was gone
[19:45] <Tarvas> We seem to get hit with the max amount more often than not. Something to even out the hit distribution would be nice.
[19:45] <Shang_Laptop> Yeah.. I was pretty surprised to see shield block not doing much on the Ranger.
[19:46] <Shang_Laptop> I'm not opposed to using a shield on the ranger.. Just would be nice if it was more noticeable while using it.
[19:46] <Ratbo> High shield block would not affect raiders much - groupers could at least stand a chance at tanking.

[Rorce]

[19:46] <Tarvas> Shield seems to block right around 2%
[19:46] <Morulak> shield block for all classes outside of tanks could use some love.
[19:46] <Tarvas> For my parses
[19:46] <Tarvas> *from
[19:46] <Ronthorn> i do not think shield block would even help us i think we need defensive skill cap at least up to rogue levels, along with other things (thats out of elidroths domain though)
[19:47] <Ratbo> Good point Ronthorn - our defense fell below a lot of Melee classes .
[19:47] <@Elidroth> basic things like block, avoidance, etc, are under review as it's more of a content issue than a class issue
[19:47] <@Elidroth> by that I mean NPCs are winding up with 100% strikethrough when they shouldn't
[19:48] <Ratbo> We're asking yo uto look at it as a class Issie re Rangers - we get stuck tanking group content a lot - while the reals tanks are sleeping till raid nights.
[19:48] <Ratbo> typo city there!!
[19:48] <Shang_Laptop> Hrm. How about extra-mitigation while rangers are wearing a shield then? Something to help compensate.
[19:48] <Ronthorn> what about mitigation elidroth not sure if you saw the ranger parses but wow we take more max damage hits then we take min damage ones which i am kind of ok with but i would rather see ours moved closer to the middle
[19:49] <Ratbo> What Shang said.....
[19:49] <@Elidroth> That's all part of the strikethrough problem too.. we're working on it
[19:50] <Greyvvolf> It was brought up earlier in the day, during the Warrior discussion, about balancing out the damage spikes from NPC, he's answered that one a lot, today :)
[19:50] <Ronthorn> is that why outriders evasion ( ranger aa) seems to have stopped working
[19:50] <Shang_Laptop> That makes it tricky, as you can't really improve mitigation, or you'll have to rebalance it again. Don't envy that position =p
[19:50] <@Elidroth> Evasion gets tricky.. because there is a tipping point where you just don't get hit.
[19:51] <Ronthorn> yeah our AA outriders evasion no longer seems to do anything so i wondering if its the strikethrough issue you spoke of
[19:51] <Ratbo> Still a Ranger with a Shield, a taunt button, and the enraging / summers line can Hold aggro. The problem is incoming Damage. If Shield block at least exceeded silkies (but was under warriors) it would at least go down easier.
[19:51] <Roth_Trailfinder> While I'm sure you're against that, Elidroth, from a "health of the game" perspective, I don't tink anyone who gets hit would really mind 100% avoidance full time :P
[19:52] <Ratbo> LOL!!!
[19:52] <@Elidroth> again.. blocks and such are under review
[19:52] <mib_ndgzhd> Spell DPS is really bad for us right now. Maybe less than 10% of melee. Could we have something that totaly nerfed our melee DPS and boosted our spells for a short duration?
[19:52] <Shang_Laptop> Thanks elidroth. Is that a no to tipping the scales to the mid-Damage interval range for rangers as well then?
[19:52] <Tarvas> So there no point in talking defensives right until it gets sorted?
[19:52] <Greyvvolf> Uh, we have that, Mib?
[19:53] <Shang_Laptop> Spell dps is more than 10%, almost 40% of our DPS comes from the spells we cast.
[19:53] <Greyvvolf> Somethings that boosts our spells, that is... /boggle
[19:53] <Ratbo> Agreed Shang.
[19:54] <mib_ndgzhd> Sorry, I'm not counting archery spells. I mean nukes basically
[19:54] <Greyvvolf> Neither was I
[19:54] <Ratbo> Nukes have always been kinda - meh
[19:54] <Roth_Trailfinder> Scout;'s MAstery of Fire, Ice, Elements, all boost spells
[19:54] <Ratbo> I don;t "feel" a change.
[19:54] <Shang_Laptop> Our Nuke is sort of struggling. That's more of a spell issue, as Aristo won't add a recast/cast time to the splash effects.
[19:55] <Ronthorn> how about a bigger boost to group guardian of the forest or something added, it currently does not stack with many of the other classes burns or bards for overhaste anything to help secure us a spot in dps groups, since beastlords got there new group disc rangers in my guild kind of got edge out in that
[19:55] <mib_ndgzhd> Every fight I've parsed has had nuke damage portion for rangers showing as miniscule vs their melee/archery spells. That's my experience.
[19:55] <Ratbo> Speaking of elements - thought bubble - is there a way to get a little more AA too add passive to ice - as it sits now a Ranger using fire is correct - Ice is a "slacker". Or is that intended?
[19:56] <mib_ndgzhd> Not a huge deal, just seems like our mana pool isnt well utilized
[19:56] <@Elidroth> AA's aren't going to change that
[19:56] <Shang_Laptop> Are you willing to hasten Bosquestalker's Discipline, Elidroth?
[19:57] <Shang_Laptop> To around the 15 minute range.
[19:57] <Klaian> we use ice or fire nukes?
[19:57] <Spankage> since rangers don't get spell casting sub, seems impossible to make nukes do to much dmg, we're already by far highest aggro dps class currently
[19:57] <Ratbo> You can use scouts mastery of elemets - the elemental arrows and spam summers - you'll DO spell damage. And soon need that Shield we were discussing. :p
[19:57] <ToughGuy> I gotta go. Good night, and thanks for the chat. @Elidroth - If you get too much Wife aggro, give her a Soothing Kick :P
[19:57] <Ratbo> that was at MIB
[19:57] <Roth_Trailfinder> that's a spell issue .. get Summer's back into the "high damage, high casting cost, mana-dump-for-damage" slot it was, as I recall, originally intended for ... but that would be a different dev chat, not this one
[19:57] <Greyvvolf> Yeah, this is supposed to be AA's..
[19:57] <Ratbo> Agreed
[19:57] <mib_ndgzhd> Ok, sorry if thats more of a spell chat thing then
[19:57] <@Elidroth> I've already said a dozen times.. anything that affects spells or discs I'll have to discuss with Aristo.. so no yes/no now
[19:58] <Shang_Laptop> No problem.
[19:58] <Ratbo> Understood
[19:58] <Arthion> Mana pres?
[19:58] <Arthion> anything?
[19:58] <Shang_Laptop> Auspice of the Hunter - Willing to hasten that at all?
[19:58] <Tarvas> Any chance of a couple of more ranks of hasten guardian of the forest/group guardian?
[19:58] <Shang_Laptop> Believe it's at 12 minutes.
[19:59] <Ratbo> Actually a few more hastens to Auspice AND the old Mass Group buff - would help more than just Auspice.
[19:59] <Roth_Trailfinder> Group guardian currently is 10:30 ...
[19:59] <Greyvvolf> It is, Shang
[19:59] <Ratbo> In my experience MGB is the limiter
[19:59] <Roth_Trailfinder> Guardian is 6 minute reuse
[19:59] <@Elidroth> I don't mind adding another couple ranks to Hastened Auspice
[19:59] <Ronthorn> great
[20:00] <Spankage> >3
[20:00] <Roth_Trailfinder> Auspice is 12 minute reuse atm
[20:00] <Spankage> <3 too
[20:00] <Shang_Laptop> Also, Glyph of Lost Secrets currently caps at level 100.. Are you going to make a new AA, or raise that one to 105?
[20:00] <Ratbo> What about the old Mass Group Buff AA Elidroth? (used on raids to spam the Spice - as we call Auspice)
[20:00] <Shang_Laptop> And would you be willing to make a Ranger-Version of Lost Secrets
[20:01] <@Elidroth> I'm not planning on upgrading the glyphs
[20:01] <Shang_Laptop> Oh,wow. In that case, could rangers have an AA with 15 minute reuse with 10% mana pres?
[20:01] <Spankage> i'm sorry but you need to do something about glyphs or our mana regen
[20:02] <Shang_Laptop> More than 10% would be welcome.. but, yeah..
[20:02] <@Elidroth> I can extend the glyphs, but I'm not going to improve them
[20:02] <Ratbo> I agree only as far as yes - Rangers DO piss through mana worse than most hybrids.
[20:03] <Spankage> shang asking to increase level cap on mana pres glyph
[20:03] <Spankage> so they will work at 105
[20:03] <@Elidroth> You do realize EVERY CLASS says they go through resources faster than every other class, right?
[20:03] <Hatsee> Yeah but those guys are liars.
[20:03] <Spankage> only except it's actually true for rangers
[20:03] <Arthion> for real.
[20:03] <Ratbo> I dont doubt that. They lie. :)
[20:03] <Tarvas> We are all trustworthy
[20:04] <Shang_Laptop> Beastlords go through faster than Rangers.. However, they have two paragons and a canni to counteract it, so Rangers actually go through it slightly faster.
[20:04] <Roth_Trailfinder> I've seen a beastlord tear through mana faster than I could .. I've never seen a bard, paladin, or SK go through mana as fast as we can
[20:04] <Shang_Laptop> Rangers just have Glyph of Lost Secrets, which Beastlords can also use to counteract their mana bleed.
[20:04] <Shang_Laptop> But, for an example. The last time I did Tower of Rot on my Ranger, I had to use 13 mana potions, 1 32k mana potion, staunch, kiss, and 2 QMs to beat it.
[20:04] <Ratbo> Agreed that a level cap on Glyph of Lost Secrets is kinda a must with new expansion - or we go Backwards.
[20:05] <Shang_Laptop> That was with a full group.
[20:05] <Hatsee> Doesn't the debuff kill mana pres though?
[20:05] <Shang_Laptop> Yeah, showing just how awful we bleed.
[20:07] <Ratbo> OK - left field - AA - can we ALL get more ranks of Tank Merc AA - particulary for Hit Points? They mitigate OK - but at max gear and AA they still blow (compared to the other mercs)
[20:07] <Shang_Laptop> But, is that a no to considering adding a mana tool to rangers? I don't want to cast it on other classes. It can be preservation, regeneration, burst... anything, really
[20:08] <Ratbo> I thought it was a no - will pause for clarification
[20:08] <@Elidroth> It's a no
[20:08] <Shang_Laptop> Ouch.
[20:08] <Shang_Laptop> Okay
[20:08] <Ratbo> thought so... heh
[20:08] <@Elidroth> Merc AA are something I'd like to add to, but only if I have enough time
[20:08] <Arthion> that is the fist
[20:09] <Ratbo> The other mercs work "OK" it's the lack of real tanks hurting squishy groupers.
[20:09] <Greyvvolf> Think everything else is caught up... Cover Tracks, any Quickened to make it instant cast like some other class fades?
[20:09] <@Elidroth> We have to be very careful that Mercs can't replace real tanks forever
[20:09] <Ratbo> If only find time ot add hit points (a lot of them)
[20:09] <Arthion> they are working as intended, rangers can tank just fine
[20:10] <Ratbo> Agreed - but the grouping tank is Scarce out there.
[20:10] <Roth_Trailfinder> I've found that two cleric mercs can offtank a mob quite easily, while keeping me up hehe
[20:11] <@Elidroth> I think going forward I'd like to see npc's have more hp, but not hit as hard
[20:11] <@Elidroth> make the fights last longer
[20:11] <@Elidroth> but we'll see
[20:11] <Ratbo> Understood
[20:11] <Roth_Trailfinder> That would reduce the calls for more tanking ability, and increase the calls for more dps, I'd think :)
[20:12] <Ratbo> Agreed..
[20:12] <Ronthorn> yeah i believe so right now tanks are hard to find i often have to tank for my little group
[20:12] <Ronthorn> and i do not complain when i die! i am use to it rofl
[20:13] <Shang_Laptop> How much time we have left Elidroth?
[20:13] <Ratbo> Though I *would* like to see a semblance of the old GROUP pecking order: Warriors, GAP, Knights, GAP , GAP, Rangers, GAP GAP - others in whatever order.
[20:13] <@Elidroth> 15-20 min
[20:13] <Ratbo> I think I got all mine off....
[20:14] <Greyvvolf> Had a few unanswered still, if everyone else is done
[20:14] <Roth_Trailfinder> I'd asked early on about Lightning Strikes .. I don't think that one was answered (though the rest of mine were) ... ?
[20:15] <Shang_Laptop> Thinking if I have anything else.
[20:15] <mib_ndgzhd> Do the new SPA 209 duration reducers work on non dispelable spells? Can we have a way to reduce duration of spells that are not normally dispable by our AA dispell?
[20:16] <@Elidroth> No
[20:16] <raisin> can cover tracks be changed to be instant?
[20:16] <@Elidroth> Only works on spells without the No_Dispell flag set
[20:16] <raisin> pulling and coming to a deadstop can be hard
[20:16] <@Elidroth> Nope
[20:16] <@Elidroth> That's not what Cover Tracks was created for
[20:16] <Ratbo> A quick note: The Enchanters are likely to be asking for a copy of our AA dispell that strips buffs only. I wish to go on record as having *no objection*. If I pull it into camp and forget to strip it - I can't think of a btter class to "Strip Enchantments" as a debuff AA.
[20:17] <Greyvvolf> ok... Combat Stability being added under General Tab, any adds to Combat Agility?
[20:17] <Hatsee> Can we get Healing Boon?
[20:19] <@Elidroth> No to Combat Agility
[20:19] <Greyvvolf> Ok, was Two-Handed Bash intended for us to receive?
[20:19] <Shang_Laptop> No.
[20:19] <Greyvvolf> Didn't think so
[20:19] <Ratbo> Was a typo
[20:20] <Greyvvolf> Figured, missed that on the boards
[20:20] <Shang_Laptop> Rogues and Monks both have an innate proc ability.. Could rangers receive a similar one?
[20:20] <Shang_Laptop> Believe it gives hundred hands when it procs.
[20:20] <raisin> combat stability and agility almost seem like a penalty to leveling
[20:20] <Greyvvolf> And another rank to Weapon Affinity viable or no? Haven't had one since Underfoot
[20:20] <raisin> you are required to get them
[20:20] <raisin> but you simply get back to where you were

[Rorce]

[20:20] <Shang_Laptop> If a buff is out of the question, could it be an archery skill attack proc while meleeing?
[20:20] <Ratbo> Now some "staff block" might help us use 2handers for fun... here and there.
[20:21] <Roth_Trailfinder> He already covered HHE, possibly adding it to the Scout's MAstery of weapons AA's (slash, blunt, piercing)
[20:21] <Ratbo> CA and CS actually add a Pantload of mitigation when maxed out - it's additive.
[20:21] <Roth_Trailfinder> it was brought up earlier, since HHE is no longer broken
[20:21] <Ratbo> He said no acronyms - HHE
[20:21] <@Elidroth> Weapon Affinity is a disc
[20:21] <Shang_Laptop> Must have missed it in the initial rush of questions..
[20:22] <Roth_Trailfinder> Weapon Affinity is an AA
[20:22] <Shang_Laptop> Weapon Affinity is an AA that provides higher proc chance on weapon procs.
[20:22] <Roth_Trailfinder> bottom of the list of Archtype when sorted alphabetically
[20:22] <Ratbo> Yes an AA - I have rat in game.
[20:22] <@Elidroth> DOH.. that's what I get for filtering things by Class
[20:22] <Shang_Laptop> It's also a Rogue proc modifier disc, yes
[20:22] <Greyvvolf> Archetype AA :)
[20:23] <Ratbo> He did all the Grelleths partisans waiting for Ranger time
[20:23] <@Elidroth> Also, no. That already puts you at 70% proc chance.. That's honestly too high as it is
[20:23] <Winterjoy> could add radiant cure to our archtype
[20:23] <Winterjoy> and innate twincast
[20:24] <Greyvvolf> Parses sure don't reflect 70%, but alright, that's all I've got
[20:24] <Roth_Trailfinder> 100% would merely double our base chance to proc. Its not 70% absolute, but 70% of our base added on to that base
[20:24] <Garrion> I love seeing things being askde and worked on for rangers. I truly hope that one that that will be hopefully increase is both melee and ranged dps. Preferably ranged. I hope things things in the aa lines are not forgotten and hopefully made better.
[20:25] <Shang_Laptop> I realize you'll have to ask Aristo, but hastened Desperate ______ line? Desperate XXX is the ranger fast heal line. Current reuse is 30 seconds.
[20:25] <Shang_Laptop> If you at least want to have a dialog with him about it, mucho apreciato
[20:25] <Shang_Laptop> (flawless spanish et al)
[20:25] <Ratbo> Wow - nce catch Shang - seconded.
[20:26] <@Elidroth> We can talk about it for sure
[20:26] <Shang_Laptop> Thanks
[20:27] <Ratbo> Wife just let Mothra in the door - sec
[20:27] <Shang_Laptop> Is it possible for an activateable AA to temporarily reduce the reuse time on a spell?
[20:27] <@Elidroth> It's possible
[20:28] <Shang_Laptop> Currently?
[20:28] <Shang_Laptop> Would you be willing to do it for the Focused Arrow line? (Similar to the AA: Frenzied Swipes)
[20:28] <Ratbo> When at all possible - PLEASE use passive AA. Most of us aren't masochists. :p
[20:29] <Shang_Laptop> Again, understand you need to talk to Aristo about it.. probably
[20:29] <@Elidroth> Yeah.. that's not likely though
[20:30] <@Elidroth> So.. I think that's going to do it officially today
[20:30] <Shang_Laptop> Forecasted shots has too long of a reuse for that request to work on that one =\
[20:30] <@Elidroth> Keep the PMs coming though
[20:30] <Ronthorn> how about a upgrade to Natures Reprieve something like 30 percent life for 30 percent chance to trigger its 20 percent life now and most mobs kill you before it could fire
[20:30] <Greyvvolf> Thanks Elidroth
[20:30] <Shang_Laptop> Sounds good. Thank you for the chat Elidroth.
[20:30] <@Elidroth> This is a LOT of new stuff to deal with going forward for just the 4 classes I did today
[20:30] <Roth_Trailfinder> Thanks Elidroth
[20:30] <@Elidroth> hehe
[20:30] <Ronthorn> thanks elidroth
[20:30] <Ratbo> thnaks Elidrith!!!
[20:30] <@Elidroth> Look forward to seeing people in beta soon
[20:30] <Ronthorn> enjoyed this
[20:30] <Ratbo> Was very pleasant - yes
[20:31] <Guado-Povar> Likewise, Elidroth
[20:31] <Winterjoy> Thanks Elidroth
[20:31] <Ratbo> worth waiting for...
[20:31] <Tadenea> makes me sad I missed most
[20:31] <Shang_Laptop> Beta is my favorite time of the year.
[20:31] <Guado-Povar> Thank you for doing this
[20:31] <Morulak> Thanks for the chats eli, you are not crazy for doing them, the player base loves to have some impact on their class.
[20:31] <Ratbo> Tad you can scroll back - all the info is there. :)
[20:31] <Tadenea> it cuts off after awhile
[20:32] <Shang_Laptop> Yeah, any interaction with a developer is generally cherished by a player.
[20:32] <Ratbo> YEs we do - Its nice ot know we are heard - even with NO. :)
[20:32] <Tadenea> good to see rangers were mostly civialized
[20:32] <@Elidroth> Heh
[20:32] <@Elidroth> Mostly
[20:32] <Tadenea> hate to see some other classes
[20:32] <Greyvvolf> I tried to stay on my leash, honest.
[20:32] <Ratbo> We were nice! :)
[20:32] * Tadenea mourns for what Elidroth has coming
[20:32] <Shang_Laptop> Crystilla is going to rip him a new one
[20:32] <Mykaylla> You hate to see other classes Tadenea? Well no buffs for you then!
[20:33] <Tadenea> crystilla will still buff me
[20:33] <sebshaik> give them virtue, mykay!
[20:33] <Ratbo> I like you guys! ( Sony and Sony Marketing - a whole different sotry)
[20:33] <Warbane> Beastlords tommorow? I forgot already
[20:33] <Warbane> I have add
[20:33] <sebshaik> or aego...anything to block skin!
[20:33] <Shang_Laptop> Crystilla will do naughty things with a rolling pin.
[20:34] <Shang_Laptop> (Where is she?)
[20:34] <Ratbo> I forgot to ask if the new expansion will have a secret use for all the extra FORRAGING we got. LOL
[20:34] <Tadenea> Tuesday 8/26 - Cleric, Shaman, Druid, Beastlord
[20:34] <sebshaik> yes @ warbane with the priests :)
[20:35] <sebshaik> probably around 4-6 pacific,
[20:35] <@Elidroth> Thanks all.. See you tomorrow morning